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Japanese chisels-help please!
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Author:  Heath [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Hello all at OLF, can you help please,
I have been thinking about getting some japanese chisels. have been looking around and the price seem to vary alot, I know you get what you pay for but are the cheaper ones any good!
Grizzly are selling a set of 10 for $139!
grzzly
they they are hand finished but I doubt they are hand made, has any one here used them.
also been looking at a couple of other sets
craftmans
finetools
the craftman ones look nice and they say they are hand forged, is that a big differance.
the fine tool ones I'm looking at are the ones with the twin hollows in the back, there is a big diference in price for this it seems, is there a big advantage in this. (How about the buget ones on that page?)
also they are rockwell 64, and white paper steel
where as others are rockwell 62, is that a big difference in hardness, what is a standard maples in rockwell?
am I wasting my money as I got two full sets of marples one blue the other spliproof (yellow orange handle) and these take a very sharp edge.
any help would be much appreciated!!!
sorry for so many questions, but I'm only gonna do this once and I want to buy right without going overboard!
Many thanks
Heath
Heath38723.8224652778
Author:  David Collins [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:44 am ]
Post subject: 
I've used the blue steel chisels from Japan Woodworker (made by
Matsumura) and they were by far the best chisels I've ever touched. If I
remember right, most of the white steel chisels were c62 to c63, and you
didn't see c64 hardness until you got to what they call blue steel.

I currently have a set of japanese chisels from Harbor Freight of all places,
and they are surprisingly good. Not quite as good as the Matsumuras, but
for 10-15 bucks apiece they are much better than a set of Marples for
about the same price.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
They will be a pleasure to use, I have full set that I built from the one's that Lee Valley sells and from a tool liquidator. They appear identical, same handle and everything, except for the hammer furrel. But, I think that they are great cabinet chisels they are a little short and blunt for things like brace carving. Although very new at it it was just a dream to carve the top braces in about two hours (sanded!) using an ibex plane (Lee Valley) and a sorby paring (long and thin) chisel. That is the way I would go!

Shane
Author:  Steve Saville [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Japanise chisels are great. One of the wood magazines I get just had a great article on choosing chisels. They recommended them, but if you want to save money, some of the old American - turn of the century - chisels can be your best value because of the way the were formed. I inherited a set from my grandfather. They hold a great edge and sharpen up nice. Like the Japanese chisels, these early American chisels were forced, instead of ground. Forging makes them harder which helps them sharpen and hold an edge. The back of a Japanese chisel is hollowed out to help speed honing.
Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
"Japanese" chisels, if you're talking about the laminated variety are a whole
new level of tool, compared to regular carbon steel. Be prepared to buy and
learn how to use waterstones too, as oil stones won't sharpen them in any
reasonable amount of time.
Woodline (Japan Woodworker) in Alameda CA and Hida Tool ( http://
www.hidatool.com/ ) in Berkeley (my preferred vendor) have very good
selections.
-C
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
I absolutely agree that japanese chisels are top notch, I have a wonderful expensive japanese slick that is about 2 inches wide that I use for timber framing. But for guitar work I think that the standard cabinet chisels that most of us think of as Japanese chisels (they do make a huge variety and Japan Woodworker is the place to see the variety) are pretty bulky and rugged. Great for housing out mortices and the like but a very thin long sharp paring chisel I think will give you better visability and control when shaping braces and neck bits. You can buy a huge variety, I have a moderate variety, but just priortize the acquistion of your selection by your tasks and start with the chisel best suited to the most common task first.

Shane
Author:  Frank Ford [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have a number of Japanese chisels, and I've found that the hardness of the
blade is a problem for me. I suppose I'm just too rough on them, but the
hard brittle edge breaks down, particularly when I make curving cuts in hard
woods. All in all, I get better edge holding characteristics with a slightly
softer steel, so I've retired my Japanese chisels and use just regular Sandvik
or equivalent moderately priced chisels for most operations. Because the
fine edge doesn't fracture, I can go far longer between sharpening with
them.
Author:  David Collins [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
The hardness can certainly be an issue when sharpening, and they will
often chip rather than dent. I just spent about 6 hours on Monday honing
5 chisels (of course this was after I realized my course water stone was
worn a little too concave - grrrrr).

I keep a number of Marples and miscellaneous conventional chisels
around for more agressive work, and tend to use the Japanese chisels for
lighter shaving and cuts. I do feel I can get a noticably finer edge on the
blade, but it does come at a cost.
Author:  Heath [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for all the help and info every body, thats just what I needed to hear, I was going to buy a 1 1/2 " gouge as well, But I best stick to standard chisels for that one as I go at the heel of the thru-neck basses very hard with a hammer on that, I going to get a half decent blue steel paring 6 piece set for some fine hand work and/or maybe HHS set so I can still hammer them.
Your right about the old chisels, I got a set old marples firmer chisels and they hold a very sweet edge.
maybe I just chisel mad
Thanks againHeath38724.6393171296
Author:  bob J [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Are they superior to Lie-neilson
Author:  CarltonM [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:22 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=bob J] Are they superior to Lie-neilson[/QUOTE]

Not according to reviews I've read in a couple of woodworking magazines, at least in the same price range ($50). Reviewers liked the L-N handles better, and said the steel is comparable in quality, and perhaps less prone to chipping. The L-N's are based on a venerated Stanley model that hasn't been made for many years.
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